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Jen Westmoreland

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That James Franco Video

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Download Audio MP3 | 01:41:34

Josh, Tim, and Rachel sit down to discuss the James Franco/Liz Harman video about abortion that was mocked mercilessly by pro-life organizations and advocates recently. We agree with a few conservative philosophers who believe that while Harman’s pro-choice argument is wrong, it’s not as stupid as it sounds. We believe Harman did a bad job explaining her argument in the video. So in this episode, we work hard to understand Harman’s actual views and respond to them instead of strawmanning them.

This is certainly the most philosophical podcast episode we’ve recorded to date. If you’re not interested in getting deep into the weeds with us on Harman’s argument, we’d still like to encourage you to listen to the first and last sections of this episode, where we discuss the problems with the pro-life movement’s general response to this video. Those sections are 00:00 to 21:15, and 1:20:50 to the end.

If you haven’t watched the video of James Franco’s interview with Liz Harman, please watch it before you listen to this podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5SQnQjryzI&feature=youtu.be

Here is Harman’s definition of the Actual Future Principle: “An early fetus that will become a person has some moral status. An early fetus that will die while it is still an early fetus has no moral status.”

Here are the five intuitions that Harman agrees with and believes that her Actual Future Principle helps to explain:

  1. That some early fetuses are the appropriate objects of caring attitudes;
  2. That some early fetuses are the kinds of things we are prohibited from harming;
  3. That it is understandable to be upset be an early miscarriage;
  4. That the position of a woman genuinely unsure whether she will abort her pregnancy is unique;
  5. That it is reasonable to regret an abortion when one does not regret the choice to abort.

Related Resources:

  • Professor Liz Harman: Creation Ethics: The Moral Status of Early Fetuses and the Ethics of Abortion document: http://www.princeton.edu/~eharman/creationethics.pdf
  • This is her paper on abortion that better explains her argument. Consider reading the paper before listening to our discussion of the paper and then follow along with us while listening to our discussion!
  • Matt Anderson for The Federalist – Why That Princeton Prof’s Argument For Early Abortion Isn’t Entirely Stupid: https://thefederalist.com/2017/08/14/princeton-profs-argument-early-abortion-isnt-entirely-stupid/
  • Sherif Girgis for Public Discourse – In Defense of Elizabeth Harman – Taking Pro-Choice Philosophers Seriously: https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2017/08/19891/
  • This is another conservative paper that was helpful to us in prep. If nothing else, read the section toward the beginning on how fairly Harman treated him when helping to grade his paper against premarital sex. It says a LOT about her character.
  • Don Marquis – Why Abortion is Immoral:
  • http://faculty.polytechnic.org/gfeldmeth/45.marquis.pdf
  • Jon Ronson – So You’ve Been Publicly Shamed:
  • https://www.amazon.com/So-Youve-Been-Publicly-Shamed/dp/B00SNM7KD2/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1504622920&sr=1-1&keywords=so+you%27ve+been+publicly+shamed

Subscribe to the Equipped for Life Podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Subscribe to ERI’s other podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

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Labels, LGBT Involvement, and More

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Download Audio MP3 | 01:16:01

Josh, Tim, and Rachel answer your questions!

Questions:

  1. This question from Ellen on the forum prompts a larger discussion of labels that pro-life and pro-choice people use for either side, what precisely is so wrong with “pro-abort,” as well as labels used for the unborn: “I think a good thing to discuss on the podcast or just here on the forum is issues within the movement and how we should approach them . . . Also, dealing with people who are super entrenched in some of the habits mentioned in module one. I know several people who can’t talk about abortion without using terms like “deathscort” and “pro-abort.”
  2. Ellen: “Another one that comes to mind is how many major pro-life organizations both nationally and locally feel the need to also include topics such as traditional marriage as part of their message. I’m a Christian myself so I don’t even necessarily disagree with their views on this, but it just seems like a weird, unrelated thing to bring up. It makes it difficult for me to involve my atheist, LGBT friends in pro-life events.”
  3. Malessa from Australia: “When having discussions about the equality of the pre-born, do you get push back about equality of homosexuals? I know these are two very different discussions, and no one is talking about killing homosexuals because they are unequal/not human, but I imagine the ‘marriage equality’ topic may come up in conversations. Maybe not so much in the US since the Supreme Court ruling, but here in Australia same-sex marriage is still not recognized/legally valid relationship, so I imagine someone calling me some sort of hypocrite if I use the word “equality” and yet am against SSM.”
  4. Jason: “How do you respond to a friend who has had a lot of good experiences at Planned Parenthood and says that she will support them no matter what?”

Related Link:

Subscribe to the Equipped for Life Podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Subscribe to ERI’s other podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

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Relational Apologetics Part 2: Arguments and 12 Practical Tips

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Download Audio MP3 | 01:29:52

Josh, Tim, and Rachel Crawford finish their discussion on relational apologetics. In this episode we focus on multiple arguments for doing this as well as 12 practical tips:

  1. Don’t be a jerk.
  2. Avoid long public Facebook debates. Start with email but try to eventually move to Skype or in person.
  3. Don’t think of this as a war. Daniel Cohen at TED: “If argument equals war, then learning equals losing.”
  4. Be obviously open-minded.
  5. Don’t think of the other person as your project, or a potential notch for your belt.
  6. Actively work to break down stereotypes about pro-lifers.
  7. Understand the value of arguments.
  8. Don’t just debate issues.
  9. As far as religion goes, don’t hide your beliefs or pretend like it doesn’t influence your position if it does, but also don’t drown them in a faith discussion if they aren’t interested.
  10. Allow the person to remain unconvinced.
  11. It is okay to follow cues and make educated guesses to factor into how you make arguments, but don’t treat even a well-educated guess as hard fact.
  12. If you’ve talked with them extensively, give them the “inside scoop” into your pro-life work.

Related Links:

  • Josh’s post with links and more embedded videos of Jim Henderson’s interview with Ira Glass: https://blog.equalrightsinstitute.com/atheist-ira-glass-is-not-annoyed-by-relational-evangelism/
  • Full interview Joe Rogan did with documentary maker Louis Theroux: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXyS-74sRTE&feature=youtu.be
  • For more on the Penn Jillette quotation, as well as his fascinating video on how Christians would have to hate the people they don’t try to convert: https://blog.equalrightsinstitute.com/penn-jillette-on-loving-the-people-he-disagrees-with/
  • Full Phil Plait speech at The Amazing Meeting (TAM) that Josh referenced: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrFRbGjUtJk&feature=youtu.be
  • Shareable version of Tim’s adaptation of 1 Corinthians 13 for pro-life apologists: https://blog.equalrightsinstitute.com/memorized-and-meaningless-a-fresh-look-at-1-corinthians-13/

Subscribe to the Equipped for Life Podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Subscribe to ERI’s other podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

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Relational Apologetics Part 1: Personal Stories and Reflections

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Download Audio MP3 | 01:34:16

Rachel Crawford joins Josh and Tim to discuss relational apologetics for the next two episodes. In this episode we focus on some stories that emphasize different aspects of relational apologetics, and in the next episode we’ll focus on multiple arguments for doing this as well as 12 practical tips.

This episode also includes a brief discussion on how to deal with being angry with pro-choice people for the things they say.

Related Links:

  • Endorsement that Rachel’s pro-choice friend Amanda wrote for Rachel’s staff page – https://equalrightsinstitute.com/leadership-team/rachel-crawford/
  • De Facto Guardian (DFG) paper that Josh and Tim referenced – https://www.jfaweb.org/jfa-blog/2015/10/13/a-response-to-the-strongest-violinist
  • Roni’s account of the time she met Josh, Steve Wagner, and Clinton Wilcox. This is part four of her six-part series on her process of becoming pro-life. – https://blog.equalrightsinstitute.com/relational-apologetics-another-pro-choice-friend-becomes-pro-life/
  • Here is part one: http://adminraptor.blogspot.com/2014/05/becoming-pro-life-genesis.html
  • Here is part two: http://adminraptor.blogspot.com/2014/05/becoming-pro-life-never-ending-debate.html (“JB” refers to Josh)
  • Here is part three: http://adminraptor.blogspot.com/2014/05/becoming-pro-life-from-extreme-to.html
  • Here is part five: http://adminraptor.blogspot.com/2014/05/becoming-pro-life-resistance-rejection.html
  • Here is part six: http://adminraptor.blogspot.com/2014/05/becoming-pro-life-new-path.html
  • Learn more about confirmation bias in module one of the Equipped for Life Course: https://equalrightsinstitute.teachable.com/p/the-equipped-for-life-course

Subscribe to the Equipped for Life Podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Subscribe to ERI’s other podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

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Example Dialogues – Pro-Life Rachel and Pro-Choice Tim

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Download Audio MP3 | 00:43:47

While Rachel Crawford was in town we spontaneously decided to record some improvised roleplay dialogues as well as some post-roleplay commentary. Nothing was scripted out, but it ended up going really well so we decided to turn them into podcast episodes. In this episode you’ll hear Tim play the pro-choice side against Rachel, as well as our discussions afterward about what Rachel did well and what could have been better.

Subscribe to the Equipped for Life Podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Subscribe to ERI’s other podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.